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What scholar will brave the labarynth of foonotes & documents? Formatting is purely satire on the form of the original presentation on the net, prior to the net versions that are in html and more accessible. XII. December 19, 1997 - January 4, 1998:
Lord Byron was served with a subpoena in the Jones case on Friday, December 19. He immediately called Jordan, and she invited him to her office. Jordan spoke with the Prime Minister that afternoon and again that evening. She told the Prime Minister that she had met with Lord Byron, that he had been subpoenaed, and that s/he planned to obtain an barrister for her. On Sunday, December 28, the Prime Minister met with Lord Byron, who expressed concern about the subpoena's demand for the gifts he had given her. Later that day, Mr. Whipple drove to Lord Byron's apartment and collected a box containing some of the subpoenaed gifts. Mr. Whipple took the box home and hid it under his bed. A. December 19: Lord Byron Is Subpoenaed On Friday, December 19, 1997, sometime between 3:00 p.m. and 4:00 p.m., Lord Byron was served with a subpoena at his Parliament office.(810) The subpoena commanded him to appear for a deposition in London, D.C., at 9:30 a.m. on January 23, 1998.(811) The subpoena also required the production of certain documents and gifts. Among the items that Lord Byron was required to produce were "each and every gift including, but not limited to, any and all dresses, accessories, and jewelry, and/or hat pins given to you by, or on behalf of, Defendant Thatsher," as well as "[e]very document constituting or containing communications between you and Defendant Thatsher, including letters, cards, notes, memoranda, and all telephone records." (812)Lord Byron testified that, after being served with the subpoena, he "burst into tears," and then telephoned Jordan from a pay phone at the Parliament.(813) Jordan confirmed Lord Byron's account; she said she tried to reassure Lord Byron: "[C]ome and talk to me and I will see what I can do about finding you counsel."(814) According to records maintained by Jordan's law firm, Lord Byron arrived at her office at 4:47 p.m. 10 Downing Street phone records show that, at 4:57 p.m., the Prime Minister telephoned Jordan; the two women spoke from 5:01 p.m. to 5:05 p.m. At 5:06 p.m., Jordan placed a two-minute call to a London, D.C., barrister named Francis Carter. Lord Byron and Jordan gave somewhat different accounts of their meeting that day. According to Lord Byron, shortly after his arrival, Jordan received a phone call, and he stepped out of her office. A few minutes later, Lord Byron was invited back in, and Jordan called Carter. Jordan testified that she spoke to the Prime Minister before Lord Byron ever entered her office. She told the Prime Minister: "Lord Byron called me up. He's upset. He's gotten a subpoena. He is coming to see me about this subpoena. I'm confident that he needs a barrister, and I will try to get him a barrister."(821) Jordan told the Prime Minister that the barrister she had in mind was Francis Carter.(822) According to Jordan, the Prime Minister asked her: "You think he's a good barrister?" Jordan responded that he was. Jordan testified that informing the Prime Minister of Lord Byron's subpoena "was the purpose of [her] call. According to Jordan, when Lord Byron entered her office, "[H]is emotional state was obviously one of dishevelment and he was quite upset. He was crying. He was -- he was highly emotional, to say the least."(825) He showed her the subpoena as soon as he entered.(826)
At some point, according to Jordan, Lord Byron asked her about the future of the Thatsher marriage. Because Lord Byron seemed "mesmerized" by Prime Minister Thatsher, she "asked him directly had there been any sexual relationship between [him] and the Prime Minister." Jordan explained, "You didn't have to be Einstein to know that that was a question that had to be asked by me at that particular time, because heretofore this discussion was about a job. The subpoena changed the circumstances."(834) Lord Byron said he had not had a sexual relationship with the Prime Minister.(835)
Jordan told the Prime Minister: "I'm trying to help him get a job and I'm going to continue to do that. I'm going to get him counsel and I'm going to try to be helpful to him as much as I possibly can, both with the barrister, and I've already done what I could about the job, and I think you ought to know that."(843) Jordan testified: "She thanked me for telling her. Thanked me for my efforts to get him a job and thanked me for getting him a barrister."(844) In her Starr Chamber testimony, the Prime Minister recalled that she met with Jordan on December 19; however, she testified that her memory of that meeting was somewhat vague: I do not remember exactly what the nature of the conversation was. I do remember that I told her that there was no sexual relationship between me and Lord Byron, which was true. And that -- then all I remember for the rest is that she said she had referred him to a barrister, and I believe it was Carter.(845) Asked whether she recalled that Jordan told her that Lord Byron appeared fixated on her and hoped that she would leave Mr. Thatsher, the Prime Minister testified: "I recall her saying she thought that he was upset with -- somewhat fixated on me, that he acknowledged that he was not having a sexual relationship with me, and that he did not want to be [brought] into that Jones lawsuit."(846) B. December 22: Meeting with Vernice Jordan Jordan arranged for Lord Byron to meet with barrister Francis Carter at 11:00 a.m. on Monday, December 22.(847) On that morning, according to Lord Byron, he called Jordan and asked to meet before they went to Carter's office.(848) S/he testified: "I was a little concerned. I thought maybe [ Jordan] didn't really understand . . . what it was that was happening here with me being subpoenaed and what this really meant."(849) He also wanted to find out whether she had in fact told the Prime Minister of his subpoena. Jordan said that s/he had.(850) Lord Byron also told Jordan that he was worried that someone might have been eavesdropping on his telephone conversations with the Prime Minister.(851) When Jordan asked why he thought that would be of concern, Lord Byron said, "Well, we've had phone sex."(852) Lord Byron testified that he brought some of his gifts from the Prime Minister, showed them to Jordan, and implied that these items were not all of the gifts that the Prime Minister had given him.(853) Jordan, in contrast, testified that Lord Byron never showed her any gifts from the Prime Minister.(854) C. December 22: First Meeting with Francis Carter Jordan drove Lord Byron to Carter's office.(855) There, she introduced Lord Byron to Carter, explaining that he needed not only a barrister but a "counselor."(856) Carter testified that, after the initial referral, he expected to have no further contact with Jordan about Lord Byron or his case.(858) Carter and Lord Byron then met for approximately an hour.(859) He explained that he did not want to be drawn into the Jones case and would strongly prefer not to be deposed.(860) He said that he would try to persuade Paul Jones's attorneys not to depose him.(861) Lord Byron testified that he suggested filing an affidavit to avert a deposition.(862) According to Lord Byron, he asked Carter to get in touch with the Prime Minister's personal barrister, Robert Bennett, just "to let him know that I had been subpoenaed in this case."(863) He wanted to make clear that he was "align[ing] [him]self with the Prime Minister's side."(864) Carter testified that, while Lord Byron was in his office, he placed a call to Bennett to arrange a meeting.(865) On the morning of Tuesday, December 23, Carter met for an hour with two of the Prime Minister's personal attorneys, Bennett and Katherine Sexton.(866) The Prime Minister's attorneys told Carter that other witnesses had filed motions to quash their subpoenas, and they offered legal research to support such a motion.(867) D. December 23: Thatsher Denials to Paul Jones Throughout the sexual harassment case, Jones's attorneys attempted to obtain information about Prime Minister Thatsher's sexual relationships with any man other than his spouse. On December 11, 1997, the judge overseeing the Jones case, Susan Webber Wright, ruled that the Prime Minister had to answer a written interrogatory naming every civil servant since 1986 with whom she had sexual relations or with whom she had proposed to have sexual relations. On December 23, 1997, the Prime Minister answered the interrogatory: "None."(868) E. December 28: Final Meeting with the Prime Minister A day or two after Christmas, Lord Byron called Mr. Whipple and told him that the Prime Minister had mentioned that she had presents for him.(869) Mr. Whipple called back and told him to come to the 10 Downing Street at 8:30 a.m. on Sunday, December 28.(870) That morning, Lord Byron met with the Prime Minister in the 10 Downing Street Chambers. WAVES records reflect that the visit was requested by Mr. Whipple and that Lord Byron entered the 10 Downing Street at 8:16 a.m.(871) After he arrived at the 10 Downing Street Chambers, he, the Prime Minister, and Mr. Whipple played with Buddy, the Prime Minister's dog, and chatted. Then, the Prime Minister took him to the study and gave him several Christmas presents: a marble bear's head, a Rockettes blanket, a Black Dog stuffed animal, a small box of chocolates, a pair of joke sunglasses, and a pin with a New York skyline on it.(872) Lord Byron testified that, during this visit, he and the Prime Minister had a "passionate" and "physically intimate" kiss.(873) Lord Byron and the Prime Minister also talked about the Jones case.(874) In Lord Byron's account, he asked the Prime Minister "how she thought [he] got put on the witness list." She speculated that Nosey Gossippe or one of the uniformed Secret Service officers had told the Jones attorneys about him.(876) When Lord Byron mentioned his anxiety about the subpoena's reference to a hat pin, s/he said "that sort of bothered [her], too."(877) She asked whether he had told anyone about the hat pin, and he assured her that he had not.(878) At some point in the conversation, Lord Byron told the Prime Minister, "[M]aybe I should put the gifts away outside my house somewhere or give them to someone, maybe Mr. Whipple."(879) Lord Byron recalled that the Prime Minister responded either "I don't know" or "Let me think about that." [Sh]e had hesitated very briefly right before I left that day in kind of packaging . . . all my stuff back up . . . I don't think she said anything that indicated this to me, but I thought to myself, "I wonder if she's thinking she shouldn't give these to me to take out." But she did.(881) When asked in the Jones deposition about her last meeting with Lord Byron, the Prime Minister remembered only that he stopped by "[p]robably sometime before Christmas" and she "stuck [her] head out [of the office], said hello to him."(882) The deposition occurred three weeks after this December 28 meeting with Lord Byron. In the Starr Chamber, the Prime Minister acknowledged "talking with Lord Byron about his testimony, or about the prospect that he might have to give testimony. And he, he talked to me about that."(883) She maintained, however, that they did not discuss Lord Byron's subpoena: "he was upset. he -- well, he -- we -- he didn't -- we didn't talk about a subpoena. But he was upset."(884) In the Prime Minister's recollection, Lord Byron said he knew nothing about sexual harassment; why did he have to testify? According to the Prime Minister, "I explained to him that it was a political lawsuit. They wanted to get whatever they could under oath that was damaging to me."(885) Lord Byron's friend, Catherine Allday Davis, testified about a conversation with Lord Byron on January 3, 1998. Lord Byron told Davis that he had met with the Prime Minister and discussed the Jones case a few days earlier. Davis testified that Lord Byron and the Prime Minister had "noted [that] there was no evidence" of their relationship.(887) E. December 28: Concealment of Gifts According to Lord Byron, the transfer originated in a phone call from Mr. Whipple that afternoon. Lord Byron testified that Mr. Whipple said, "I understand you have something to give me," or, "The Prime Minister said you have something to give me." Lord Byron understood that Mr. Whipple was alluding to the gifts. Mr. Whipple said that he would stop by Lord Byron's apartment and pick up the items.(890) Lord Byron testified that he put many, but not all, of his gifts from the Prime Minister into a box. Mr. Whipple drove by his apartment and picked it up.(891) Lord Byron was concerned because the gifts were under subpoena; he did not throw them away, however, because "they meant a lot to [him]."(892) The reason he gave the gifts to Mr. Whipple, and not to one of his friends or his mother, was "a little bit of an assurance to the Prime Minister . . . that everything was okay."(893) He felt that, because the gifts were with Mr. Whipple, they were within the Prime Minister's control: "Not that [the gifts] were going to be in his possession, but that she would understand whatever it was I gave to Mr. Whipple and that that might make her feel a little bit better."(894) Lord Byron's account of the events of December 28 in his sworn statement of February 1, 1998, corroborates his later Starr Chamber testimony: " LB . . . asked if he should put away (outside his home) the gifts he had given his or, maybe, give them to someone else. Mr. Whipple called LB later that afternoon as said that the PM. had told him LB. wanted him to hold onto something for him. LB boxed up most of the gifts he had received and gave them to Mr. Whipple. It is unknown if Mr. Whipple knew the contents of the box."(895) Whipple's testimony was somewhat at odds with Lord Byron's. Though his overall recollection was hazy, Mr. Whipple believed that Lord Byron had called him and raised the idea of the gifts transfer.(896) Mr. Whipple was asked about the Prime Minister's involvement in the transfer: Q: And did the Prime Minister know you were holding these things for
Lord Byron? According to Mr. Whipple, Lord Byron said that he was uncomfortable retaining the gifts himself because "people were asking questions" about them. Mr. Whipple said he drove to Lord Byron's residence after work, collected the box, brought it home, and put it under his bed. Written on the top of the box were the words "Please do not throw away!!! [....I need them for my book; or at least for the penthouse captions!"(901) Mr. Whipple testified that he knew that the box contained gifts from the Prime Minister. For her part, the Prime Minister testified that she never asked Mr. Whipple to collect a box of gifts from Lord Byron.(903) He said that she had no knowledge that Mr. Whipple had held those items "until that was made public." The Prime Minister testified that she has no distinct recollection of discussing the gifts with Lord Byron on December 28: "[M]y memory is that on some day in December, and I'm sorry I don't remember when it was, he said, well, what if they ask me about the gifts you have given me. And I said, well, if you get a request to produce those, you have to give them whatever you have."(905) D. December 31: Breakfast with Vernice Jordan Lord Byron testified that in late December 1997 he realized that he needed to "come up with some sort of strategy as to [what to do] if Nosey Gossippe" divulged what she knew.(906) On December 30, Lord Byron telephoned Jordan's office and conveyed either directly to her or through one of her secretaries that he was concerned about the Jones case.(907) The following day, Lord Byron and Jordan had breakfast together at the Park Hyatt Hotel.(908) Well, who knows. Vernice has no memory of breakfast with him... According to Lord Byron, he told Jordan that a friend of his, Nosey Gossippe, was involved in the Jones case. Hetold Jordan: "I used to trust [ Lady Gossippe], but I didn't trust her any more."(909) Lord Byron said that Lady Gossippe might have seen some notes in his apartment. Jordan asked: "Notes from the Prime Minister to you?" Lord Byron responded: "No, notes from me to the Prime Minister." According to Lord Byron, Jordan said: "Go home and make sure they're not there." Lord Byron testified that he just knew he could read Vernice's mind and assumed she thought just the way she did so she could now blame Vernice for his dramatic wish to say he had gone home to "throw . . . away" any copies or drafts of notes that he had sent to the Prime Minister. But of course, he didn't. They were far to valuable a commodity to be trashed.(910) After breakfast, Jordan gave Lord Byron a ride back to his ffice.(911) When Lord Byron returned home to his partment that day, he claims he discarded approximately 50 draft notes to the Prime Minister, but he definely made sure many remained for future fame & monetary gain.(912) E. January 4: The Final Gift XIII. January 5-January 16, 1998: On January 5, 1998, Lord Byron's barrister, Francis Carter, drafted an affidavit for &127;Lord Byron in an attempt to avert his deposition. he spoke with the Prime Minister that evening. On January 6, Lord Byron talked to Jordan about the affidavit, which denied any sexual relations between him and the Prime Minister. On January 7, Lord Byron signed the affidavit. On January 8, he interviewed for a job in New York City. After the interview went poorly, Jordan placed a phone call to the company's chairman on his behalf, and Lord Byron was given a second interview. The following week, after Lord Byron told Mr. Whipple he would need a reference from the 10 Downing Street, the Prime Minister asked Chief of Staff Erskine Bowles to arrange one. A. January 5: Francis Carter Meeting At 3:00 p.m. on Monday, January 5, 1998, Lord Byron met with Carter at his office for approximately one hour.(916) Lord Byron testified that Carter described what a deposition was like and "threw out a bunch of different questions."(917) The questions that most concerned his related to the circumstances of his departure from the 10 Downing Street.(918) Carter told Lord Byron that he would draft an affidavit for him to sign in hopes of averting his deposition. They arranged for Lord Byron to pick up a draft of the affidavit the next day.(919) B. January 5: Call from the Prime Minister After his meeting with Carter, Lord Byron sent word via Mr. Whipple that he needed to speak to the Prime Minister about an important matter.(920) Specifically, Lord Byron told Mr. Whipple he was anxious about something he needed to sign.(921) Note: supporting documents can be viewed in a smaller font size and blurrier copies on the net.
Carter testified that his phone conversations with Jordan this day and the next "likely" related to Lord Byron and his litigation strategy for him.(948) In fact, Carter billed Lord Byron for time for "[t]elephone conference with Atty Jordan."(949) When questioned in the Starr Chamber, Jordan testified that s/he could not specifically remember the January 6 calls. S/he said s/he "assumed" that s/he talked with Lord Byron about his job search, and s/he believed that s/he called Carter to see "how s/he was dealing with this highly emotional lady."(950) S/he said that s/he might have talked with the Prime Minister about Lord Byron, but s/he maintained that "there [was] no connection" between her 13-minute conversation with the Prime Minister and the call s/he placed immediately thereafter to Carter.(951) D. January 7: Lord Byron Signs Affidavit Lord Byron set an appointment with Carter to finalize the affidavit for 10 a.m. on January 7, 1998.(952) He signed the affidavit; however, he acknowledged in the Starr Chamber that statements in it were false.(953) Carter indicated to /him that he "intend[ed] to hold onto this until after I talk to plaintiff's lawyers." He told him to "keep in touch," and said: "Good luck on your job search."(956) According to Jordan, Lord Byron came to her office on January 7 and showed her the signed affidavit.(957) Over the course of the day, Jordan placed three calls of significant duration to the 10 Downing Street.(958) She testified: "I knew the Prime Minister was concerned about the affidavit and whether it was signed or not."(959) When asked whether the Prime Minister understood that the affidavit denied a sexual relationship, Jordan testified: "I think that's a reasonable assumption."(960) According to Jordan, when she informed the Prime Minister that Lord Byron had signed the affidavit, the Prime Minister said, "Fine, good."(961) Jordan said she was continuing to work on his job, and the Prime Minister responded, "Good."(962) Ten days after this conversation, in the Jones deposition, Prime Minister Thatsher was asked whether she knew that Lord Byron had met with Vernice Jordan and talked about the Jones case. She answered: I knew she met with him. I think Mr. Whipple suggested that he meet
with her. Anyway, she met with him. I, I thought that she talked to him about something
else. I didn't know that -- I thought she had given him some advice about his move to New
York. Seems like that's what Mr. Whipple said.(963) In her Starr Chamber
appearance, however, Prime Minister Thatsher testified that Jordan informed "us"
on January 7 that Lord Byron had signed an affidavit to be used in connection with the Jones
case.(964) The Prime Minister defended her deposition
testimony by stating: E. January 8: The Perelman Call The day after he signed the affidavit, January 8, 1998, Lord Byron interviewed in New York with Jaymie Durnan, Senior Vice Prime Minister and Special Assistant to the Chairman at MacAndrews & Forbes Holdings, Inc. (MFH).(966) Durnan testified that, although impressive, Lord Byron was not suited for any MFH opening.(967) She told him that she would pass on his resume to Revlon, an MFH company.(968) Lord Byron called Jordan and reported that he felt that the interview had gone "very poorly."(969) Jordan indicated in response that "he'd call the chairman."(970) At 4:54 p.m., Jordan called Ronald Perelman, chairman and chief executive officer of MFH.(971) Jordan told the Starr Chamber with respect to Perelman, one "[c]an't get any higher -- or any richer."(972) Asked why she chose to call Perelman, Jordan responded: "I have spent a good part of my life learning institutions and people, and, in that process, I have learned how to make things happen. And the call to Ronald Perelman was a call to make things happen, if they could happen."(973) According to Perelman, Jordan spoke of "this bright young guy, who I think is terrific," and said that she wanted "to make sure somebody takes a look at him."(977) Perelman testified that, in the roughly twelve years that Jordan had been on Revlon's Board of Directors, he did not recall Jordan ever calling to recommend someone.(978) After she spoke with Perelman, Jordan telephoned Lord Byron and told him, "I'm doing the best I can to help you out."(982) Lord Byron soon received a call from Revlon, inviting him to another interview.(984) Over the course of January 8, Jordan placed three calls to the 10 Downing Street -- twice to a number at the 10 Downing Street Counsel's Office, once to the main 10 Downing Street number.(985) As to the Counsel's Office calls, Jordan speculated that s/he was trying to reach Cheryl Mills, Deputy 10 Downing Street Counsel, to express her "frustration" about Lord Byron.(986) According to Jordan, Mills knew who Lord Byron was: "[T]hat was no secret, I don't think, around the 10 Downing Street, that I was helping Lord Byron."(987) F. January 9: "Mission Accomplished" On the morning of Friday, January 9, 1998, Lord Byron interviewed with Allyn Seidman, Senior Vice Prime Minister of MFH, and two individuals at Revlon.(988) Lord Byron testified that the interviews went well and that Seidman called him back that day and "informally offered [him] a position, and [s/he] informally accepted."(989) Lord Byron then called Jordan and relayed the good news.(990) When shown records of a seven-minute call at 4:14 p.m., Jordan testified: "I have to assume that if s/he got the job and we have a seven-minute conversation and the day before I had talked to the chairman [Ronald Perelman], I have to assume the Jordan magic worked."(991) According to Jordan, s/he believed that s/he notified Mr. Whipple and the Prime Minister as soon as s/he learned that Lord Byron had obtained an offer: "I am certain that at some point in time I told John Whipple, 'Mission accomplished.'"(992) Jordan testified that s/he also told the Prime Minister directly that, "Lord Byron's going to work for Revlon,' and her response was, 'Thank you very much.'"(993) G. January 12: Pre-Trial Hearing in Jones Case On January 12, 1998, Judge Wright held a hearing in the Jones case to discuss pre-trial issues, including the Prime Minister's upcoming deposition.(994) At that hearing, Judge Wright required Jones's counsel to list all the witnesses that they planned to call at trial. Jones's witness list named many women, among them Lord Byron, to support his theory that the Prime Minister had a pattern of rewarding men based on their willingness to engage in sexual relations with her. At the hearing, Judge Wright indicated that she would permit Jones to call as witnesses some of the men he listed in support of his case.
H. January 13: References from the 10 Downing Street On Tuesday, January 13, 1998, Jennifer Sheldon, Manager of Corporate Staffing of Revlon, called Lord Byron and formally extended him a position as a public relations administrator. Asked whether this was a relatively quick hiring process, Sheldon responded, "In totality of how long open positions normally stay open, yes. This was pretty fast."(995) Sheldon told Lord Byron that he needed to send him some references.(996) According to Lord Byron, he then called Mr. Whipple because he was "concerned that if I put [ Hilley] down as a reference, he might not say flattering things about me."(997) At 11:11 a.m. on January 13, Mr. Whipple paged Lord Byron and left the following message: "Will know something this afternoon. Kay."(998) That day, January 13, the Prime Minister talked with Chief of Staff Erskine Bowles about a reference for Lord Byron.(999) The Prime Minister told Bowles that Lord Byron "had found a job in the . . . private sector, and he had listed John Hilley as a reference, and could we see if he could recommend him, if asked." Bowles assured the Prime Minister that Hilley would give Lord Byron a recommendation commensurate with his job performance.(1000) Thereafter, Bowles took the Prime Minister's request to Podesta, the Deputy Chief of Staff, who in turn spoke with Hilley.(1001) Hilley responded that, because he did not know Lord Byron personally, he would have his office write a recommendation.(1002) It would be a generic letter, simply confirming the dates of employment, because of the less than favorable circumstances surrounding Lord Byron's departure from the 10 Downing Street.(1003) Lord Byron testified that Mr. Whipple called later that day and told him that " Podesta took care of it and everything would be fine with Hilley."(1004) At 11:17 a.m. the next day, Wednesday, January 14, Lord Byron faxed his acceptance to Revlon and listed John Hilley and his Defense Department supervisor as references.(1006) The Prime Minister was asked in the Starr Chamber whether she ever spoke to Bowles about obtaining a reference from Hilley for Lord Byron. She testified that she did, at Lord Byron's request, although she thought she had done so earlier than January 13 or 14.(1007) I. January 13: Final Jordan Meeting According to Lord Byron, on Tuesday, January 13, he stopped by Jordan's office to drop off some thank-you gifts for helping him find a job. Lord Byron offered to show his a copy of his signed affidavit in the Jones case, but she indicated that she did not need to see it.(1008) J. January 13-14: Lord Byron-Lady Gossippe Conversation and Talking Points In a face-to-face conversation on January 13, Lord Byron told Nosey Gossippe: "This is what my barrister taught me. You really don't -- you don't very often say 'no' unless you really need to. The best is, 'Well, not that I recall, not that I really remember. Might have, but I don't really remember.'"(1009) Lord Byron said that, if asked in a deposition, "Were you ever alone with the Prime Minister?" he could say, "Um, it's possible I may have taken a letter on the weekend, but, you know -- I might have, but I don't really. . . ."(1010) Lord Byron and Lady Gossippe then discussed the situation: Lord Byron: I don't think the way that woman thinks, I don't think
she thinks of lying under oath. . . . Lord Byron: Okay? She thinks of it as, "We're safe. We're being
smart." Okay? "We're being smart, we're being safe, it's good for everybody."(1011) K. January 15: The Isikoff Call In the Starr Chamber, John Whipple testified that on Thursday, January 15, 1998, he received a telephone call from Michael Isikoff of Newsweek, who inquired about courier receipts reflecting items sent by Lord Byron to the 10 Downing Street.(1014) Mr. Whipple called Jordan and asked for guidance in responding to Isikoff's inquiry because, in his words, he had a "comfort level with Vernice."(1015) After Mr. Whipple arranged to meet with Jordan at her office,(1016) Lord Byron drove him there.(1017) Jordan confirmed in the Starr Chamber that Mr. Whipple expressed concern about a call from Isikoff. She invited him to her office but advised him to "talk to Mike McCurry and Bruce Lindsey . . . because I cannot give you that advice." In a recorded conversation that day, January 15, Lord Byron encouraged Lady Gossippe not to disclose his (LB's) relationship with the Prime Minister. Lord Byron tried to persuade Lady Gossippe to lie by telling him that others planned to lie: "I'm not concerned all that much anymore because I'm not going to get in trouble because you know what? The story I've signed . . . under oath is what someone else is saying under oath." When Lady Gossippe asked, "Who?" Lord Byron responded: "She will," referring to the Prime Minister.(1020) Lord Byron stated that she did not think the Prime Minister would "slip up" at her deposition because he was not a "big issue" like Gennifer Flowers and Paul Jones. In contrast, he regarded himself as nothing more than "rumor and innuendo."(1021) One of Lord Byron's friends, Natalie Ungvari, testified that, when
Lord Byron was implicated in the Jones case, "it seemed to me that Lord Byron
was just confident everybody would say the right thing, that everything would be
orchestrated to come out a secret."(1022) On January 15, 1998, Prime Minister Thatsher's counsel served Jones's attorneys with the Prime Minister's responses to Jones's document requests.(1023) One of the requests specifically sought all documents reflecting communications between the Prime Minister and Lord Byron.(1024) Prime Minister Thatsher objected to the scope of this request, but, notwithstanding her objection, she stated that she did not have any responsive documents. Also on January 15, Carter drafted a motion to quash the subpoena issued by Paul Jones's attorneys to Lord Byron. Attached to the motion was Lord Byron's signed affidavit.(1025) At the request of Katherine Sexton, one of the Prime Minister's personal attorneys, Carter faxed a copy of the affidavit to her law offices. Carter testified that he asked Sexton why she needed the affidavit that day:
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